The Beor - Thoughts

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The Beor - Thoughts

Post  Janarc on Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:00 am

Kithrater and I had an awesome chat today, cut short by his needing sleep, but I wanted to throw some of the ideas he gave me out at the community, and get some feedback.

One of the critical parts of human RP is (hopefully) going to be family. There aren't that many Beor, at all, in the region and so they're pretty much all inter-related. Imagine how different your RP in a tavern is if everyone in there is a relation. Imagine how much more interesting it is to have a family's sons march off to war together in order to save their wives and children.

Another neat concept is the idea of ignorance among humans. We're new, people. Everything we're encountering is magical and bizarre - especially our benefactors, the Noldo. And how does that make us feel? These alien, weird, creatures forcing us to live like them, worship like them, discard hundreds of years of tradition. How do the people who've lost out when the Noldo found us feel? After all, we're still their cousins and brothers and sisters and fathers and children, but now these weird people are coming and disrupting all of that, and they're so...unhuman and magical, almost like divine beings themselves. Can you hate a divine being?

I hope this is all coherent, but I'll leave it with a question. How do you guys see the Beor? Kithrater has some pretty firm ideas that I'm not going to go into (because, well, they're HIS ideas). Hopefully the little I've shared won't irk him. But I'm curious to see everyone else's, too.

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Re: The Beor - Thoughts

Post  Bard on Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:22 am

Rustics anyone?

To me, the Beor remind me of people like the Vikings, Celts and Highland Scots - despite being dark and swarthy in appearance. Very Happy

There weren't many of them, so family would have been a big thing. Loyalty among one's clan (that's the principal Highland part). They were big, burly and bearded (the Viking part) - known for their inner strength and their own unique nobility (or they wouldn't have been so friendly with the Noldor).

I've always seen them as having a strong connection to the earth - the soil and stone (that's the Celtic part). They lived in horrible countryside. Dorthonion was terrible for farming - pine forests and mountains. Though being "down to earth" they were not given to unnecessary laughter or jesting - no cavaliers and swashbucklers among them. They were serious. Sober-minded. Knew their limitations, yet always tested them.

I might have more thoughts on them later, but that's all I can think of for now.
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Re: The Beor - Thoughts

Post  Janarc on Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:34 am

I'm not sure about their inner nobility, Bard. In fact, I'm not entirely certain how friendly they actually are with the Noldor. Sure, the Noldor have taken them under their wing, but the elves are also forcing them to change their whole culture to better fit the Noldor's image of right and wrong.

The humans have a lot of traditions that the Noldor fear are Morgoth-inspired. And they probably are, but the Beorning don't know that. I think the Noldor took the Beornings under their wing in an attempt to shape them, maybe to bring them toward some sort of inner nobility.

Other than that, I agree with you. Smile

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Re: The Beor - Thoughts

Post  Bard on Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:30 pm

Nobility is probably the wrong word. I'm thinking clan/family-based loyalty. Some form/code of honor maybe.

As far as being 'friendly' with the Noldor - of the Three Houses of the Edain they were the closest to the Noldor, if memory serves. Might be wrong. I'm speculating as to how that relationship would affect the House's own ethos.
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Re: The Beor - Thoughts

Post  Kestrel on Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:38 pm

I think it would be especially exciting to see the Beor in the process of transitioning from "Morgoth-inspired" as Janarc puts it to "Noldor-inspired" (Valar-inspired, whatever) as B:FA opens. It would at very least provide an excellent sort of inner conflict for the race as a whole. Whether it's canonically accurate or not, however, I don't know.

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Re: The Beor - Thoughts

Post  Bard on Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:16 pm

Been thinking (heh, I know - run for cover!) Very Happy I really would like a different name for "the Beor" as they seem to be called most of the time - Beorrim? (people of Beor?) hehe, "the Beor" isn't canonically or grammatically correct.

Are we going with Beorians? Just to be clear - like the Marachians? Or something elvish like the Haladin? They just should not be called "the Beor", as it makes no sense. "the children/people/kindred of Beor", yes.

As for the above question - there are plans for a group devoted to Morgoth (i.e. the "old gods" as far as the Beorians are concerned), which will create conflict with the teachings of the Noldor. There should be plenty of room for creative license to have PCs make a transition etc, between the two.

Would be good to see.
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Re: The Beor - Thoughts

Post  Dreamer on Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:28 pm

Beorian is the econ tag used....so I imagine we'd be calling them Beorians, but I could be very wrong.
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Re: The Beor - Thoughts

Post  Bard on Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:56 pm

Beorians is cool. Simple and easy to remember. I tried as many different Elvish ways of putting it and none of them read very well.
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Re: The Beor - Thoughts

Post  Dreamer on Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:32 pm

Bard wrote:Beorians is cool. Simple and easy to remember. I tried as many different Elvish ways of putting it and none of them read very well.

<3
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Re: The Beor - Thoughts

Post  Bad Juju on Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:32 pm

Bard wrote:

As for the above question - there are plans for a group devoted to Morgoth (i.e. the "old gods" as far as the Beorians are concerned), which will create conflict with the teachings of the Noldor. There should be plenty of room for creative license to have PCs make a transition etc, between the two.

Would be good to see.

The reason the Edain fled to these lands was because of Morgoth. How will you rectify this and the persistence of their belief in these 'old gods' with your notion that they represent Morgoth?
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Re: The Beor - Thoughts

Post  Falconer on Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:49 pm

I'd also like to note that one hundred and forty years have passed since the Beorians first encountered the Noldo. Old traditions do not slip from culture quickly, of course, but that is a significant chunk of time to begin the transition to the values of the Noldo and the pantheon of the Valar.

While there may be subsets of humans who worship the Old Gods, there will likely be as many (or significantly more) who idolize the Valar.

Just a note that while the PCs might be new, as well as the players, to Beleriand - humanity is not.

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Re: The Beor - Thoughts

Post  Kithrater on Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:03 pm

The reason the Edain fled to these lands was because of Morgoth. How will you rectify this and the persistence of their belief in these 'old gods' with your notion that they represent Morgoth?

As discussed in the Guest Lounge, there are many forms of worshipping the "Old Gods". Some of the Folk of Beor would have simply substituted the names of the Valar, and gone on their merry way. Still a headache for the elves, but the Beorians don't understand why they're punished. No doubt a lot would have happily converted, much as the people of Hawaii did when given the chance - the old ways were self evidently stupid, and we're all better off pleasing the Elves so they can teach us how to grow barley and rye in this inhospitable clime.

A hundred and forty years have passed, and so a lot of the lore that the few discontents talk about it twisted and viewed through rose-tinted glasses. "It wasn't the old gods that went mad and drove us out, the elves came and enslaved us!", or "Only -some- of the old gods went mad, but the rest led us through the generation of nomadacy to this new land, where we were captured and turned in to vassels". If anything, Morgoth is a master of deception. There wasn't an Old God named "notMorgoth". Likely, humans fashioned their own beliefs before they encountered Morgoth, and he subtly twisted them to be diverted in to worship of himself. There might even be sects within the Old God worshippers who root out and kill these "false old god" worshippers for falling for the trap.

Likewise, in a hundred and forty years, some of society's winners have become losers, and losers tend to look to their past for at least a comfort. "Things weren't so bad when we worshipped Ol Whatsit. We had land back then, and sheep, or so say my great, great, great, great grandfather!". Malcontents can often use religion as a rallying point. "Hey, remember the old days, with the old gods? none of this 'an orc invaded my village and killed my parents' stuff back then, was there! So let's go toss out that fat git, and make me boss!".

So, a lot of shades of belief. A lot of happy Valar-folk. A lot of ulterior motives. Not all Old-God folk are demonic heathens. Some just have ingrained traditions that haven't been stamped out. Or, have meshed worship of the Valar in to a new synthesis.

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Re: The Beor - Thoughts

Post  Bard on Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:12 am

What he said.

I mean, I did a post of my own on a different thread, and then read this one. All that typing...Very Happy

Anyway, with distortion of facts etc that would occur over the years, we have plenty of room for shades of grey.

Can't wait to see it all in-game! A headache for the elves... oh yes. Smile
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